i do't know why the D.A not charge this guy with thief by deception $10,000 for spiritual cleansing without no supporting documents that it will work www.1wallmart.com

"Nine to ten thousand dollars for this? "out of body experience?" This organization is comprimising to real to Native Americans Indians.. and blatantly offensive. It's a hard slap in the face to real Native Americans. Compromising to our culture with phony misappropriations of Indian spirituality. They are not a part of us,,,, not one of us,,, it is so sad,, should have tried to seek therapy to learn to accept your own culture and cease your outrageously ridiculous attempts at trying to emulate ours, These phony fabricated and distorted portrayals are compromising to our culture and damaging to our traditions by propagating ridiculous fabrications!!!! Genocide of a culture is not hip & fashionable!!!!! We are healing,,, Real Native Americans are healing ourselves from the atrocites that happened in our lifetimes, and that is what is being copied by every self appointed Indian 'Spirtualist' from here to kingdom come,,,, and marketed as just some new fad that happens to be hip and fashionable at the time, but this is our religion, we are Indians,, because we are Indians,, not because we trying to become someone else, saying to ourselves, "lets seek a new religion because our is too condeming and because were too old to use drugs anymore to drop out and escape reality and morality so now we'll pay ten thousand dollars to have an out of body experience instead, lets take away our bibles and erase our ten commandments because it is not healthy for our positve affirmations,, we don't need to hear about our sins and how our greed has gotten us into the ression we are in by spending what we don't have., Nine to ten thousand dollars for an 'out of body' experience,,, How very sadly ironic!!!! Linda Medley (Chippewa) Memphis, MI

People such as this are no different than those who copy Indian Arts and Crafts with one major exception. First of all these people who attend these types of 'retreats' are those who intend to be asscoiated so that they can open up their own profitable undertakings see for yourself, all you have to do is check on them later and see for yourselves,, it is all for one purpose,, greed,, but the major difference between those who copied Indian Arts and Crafts and all of these new spiritual phonys is that this is religous sacriledge,,, to put it in trendy terms,,, this is EXTREMELY bad Karma, sure these kinds of people have big name corporations and fortune five hundred celebrities endorse their new 'pay for religion' products', but do they really understand what they are actually doing??? Think about it,,, sure our economy is bad people are losing thier homes people can't afford heathcare,, who is going to profit? At what cost? Do they really believe in any sort of spiritual, religous & moral consecquence to their actions by taking the very sacred way of life of a people that have been already healing themselves from the atrocities already commited upon them? How can anyone charge exhorbient amounts of money for such things??? The very heart and soul,, first it was Indian food and agame for sale then the homelands now their religion up for profit??? Sweatlodge anyone?? But the difference is this is a very Indian thing and no one can buy Indian spirituality all anyone can do is try to emulate it in whatever strange and bizzare ways they just make up as they go and sell it,,, will this be dangerously immoral sacrilidge be available at Walmarts soon too???? Or will the true Native American Spirituality be obvious anytime soon???? There is a very spiritually dangerous reason Indians don't go into our sweatlodges unworthily!!! Maybe these people should have gone into a saunna,,, It doesn't seem our spirits are happy. Linda Medley (Chippewa in Michigan)

$10,000 for a new age "Dances With Poodles" experience by some selfhelp "guru" Every thime I hear someone described as a "guru" alarms go off. They wanted a ceremony and they got one, a funeral ceremony. Leave the native American spiritual practices to the native Americans, all anyone else can do is create disharmony.

Anyone with half a brain would know better than to do something soooo stupid. You dont have to live in Az to know what hot is and to know you need water. These are people with way too much money and no thought process. The loss is sad for the family, but somewhere people have to find their common sence

You get what you pay for. Especially when you pay for spiritual enlightenment. These people were looking for an out of body experience and that's what they got. Next up for sale, prime swampland in Florida, a bridge in Brooklyn and smallpox infected blankets for helf price!.

This truely saddens me as I am a Nayive American. I do sweats and I have never heard of anyone lossing their life in one before. It also makes my heart very heavy that people have turned into pimps wheither they are non-professional or professional. Why did Mr. Ray leave the grounds? Why did he not answer questions? Obviously he did not want to take responsibility or know what he was doing as people got sick and lost their lives. Prayer is not for sell, Creator is not for sell. Our very beautiful spiritual ways are not for sell. If you want to experiene these ways, then find someone that is native that will help you in the right way. You are responsible for your choices, but when someone that you feel has the knowledge like Mr. Ray portrayed himself to be, you trust that person and believe that he is knowledgeable and can help you. He is responsible, as he was responsible for all that were in the lodge. Greed and arrogance is an evil that creates loss for others. I read his comments and I feel that he is a phony and does not want to take responsibility, that he wants everyone to feel sorry for him. What about those that lost their family members, what about the empty chairs that will face them each and every day, what about all the unanswered questions that they will have for the rest of their lives? What about the ones that now feel betrayed in what they thought was a good thing, that was hopefully going to help them out? I will say prayers for all of the people that participated in the past the present (and hopefully not in the future). And for Mr. Ray that he takes responsibility for his actions. You know I go into the prison system for our brothers and sisters, I know people that have been incarcerated for less then what he has done, need I say more? Good for you tricksterpower, you hit it on the head.

To 'Strongheart': This doesn't have anything to do with believing differently. This is a costly scam which stole sacred practices from natives. Approximately 70 people paid to attend this fake retreat...totalling $630,000. Imagine how far that money would have gone towards a native clinic that struggles to provide medical care to reservation natives? This is the present (not the past) problem. This is wrong, insulting, and out-right disgusting to us native peoples. What are we teaching them? NOT to mess around with other cultures which are none of their business. They are arrogant, selfish, greedy, and dangerously stupid. There is no reason to put anything nicely. These types do not listen, do not care or give a damn about doing things correctly. Two people are dead with several very sick. All of this is punishment for cheapening our sacred ways...my CULTURE IS NOT FOR SALE!!!!

Curiosity brought me here trying to find out more about what really happened to our brothers and sisters in that lodge...After reading the articles I read the comments to see what others thought about this unfortunate situation, WOW! I've seen these people referred to as "sheeple, New agers, ect. not once as our relatives, how soon we forget our teachings "All my relations". Because others believe differently doesn't change their creator. As unfortunate as all this is, lets not waste out time judging and slandering one another, lets turn all this angry energy into positive teachings about what is so very sacred to us, bury the past genocides of their ancestors and open up and share with our bothers and sisters regardless of the color of their skin. Let's start looking to the future generations, not the past..What are we teaching them here?

to IM4US, there's a terminology for "some real sheep in this bunch"...they're called SHEEPLE. SHEEP + PEOPLE = SHEEPLE...not really people; just like to get herded around blindly!